Rob’s special Frontin’ will soon be available for pre-order on vinyl, check his website soon for more details. Make sure to also check out The Inconsistent Podcast with Rob Haze, his most recent Fallon set, and his recent Don’t Tell Comedy set!
While many were shocked to see Atlanta become the cultural epicenter of America in the 2010s, nobody who spent time in the city seemed to be particularly surprised. To them, Atlanta was putting out heat long before Andre 3000 let the Source Awards know that the south had something to say, and if anything it was about time the rest of the country took notice. Rob Haze grew up in Southwest Atlanta and remembers seeing the city level up in real time over the years. More and more artists started to get the national spotlight, but the older acts never left town after they got on, leading to a vibrant and diverse arts scene. Everyone knew someone working on something artistic growing up, so there was always a place to go learn how to make beats or whatever it may be. His middle school teacher had even taught the R&B group 112 and made sure to let her students know that if they had the drive and the talent, there was a path to success in entertainment out of Atlanta. Little did she know that in a few years she’d be teaching Lil Baby.
Rob needed to leave Atlanta for Athens an hour away to discover his talents however. Halfway through college at the University of Georgia Rob was dejected after having a bizarre fallout with his main friend group (we’ll get back to that) and decided to try his hand at a poetry open mic. He didn’t realize that he was telling jokes with his poems, but everyone else did, and he started to get a reputation as a comedian around campus, even if he didn’t quite consider himself one yet. Rob liked the freeform nature of the poetry mics and how nobody knew what direction he’d go on stage. After graduating he came to terms with the fact that he was a comedian and pounded the pavement of the Atlanta comedy scene. He realized that there weren’t too many comedians with his range, willing to hit everything from the redneck shows where you need to wear a collared shirt and a belt to the hood shows where every comic has a nickname. This helped him rise through the ranks of the Atlanta scene, culminating in a banner 2015 where he got on Last Comic Standing, won Atlanta’s Laughing Skull Comedy Festival, and was featured on the New Talent Showcase at Montreal’s prestigious Just For Laughs Festival. He then moved to New York, grinded through that comedy scene, got on the Tonight Show, and through hardwork and perseverance parlayed those opportunities into a job writing for television, all before releasing his first comedy album Haze-O-Pedia in 2019.
A few weeks ago Rob released his first comedy special Frontin’ to YouTube, and during the special he brings us back to those pivotal middle school and college years. Where Haze-O-Pedia was a collection of Rob’s best jokes since he had started doing stand up, Frontin’ was a focused meditation on a few topics Rob had wanted to talk about for a while, particularly the aforementioned collegiate bullying incident that partially drove Rob to poetry. The person Rob thought was his best friend started a secret society called Zero Tolerance: It Stops Here whose two rules were that 1. Members didn’t talk to girls and 2. Rob couldn’t be a member. This story leads to an uproarious back half of the special where Rob breaks out the photo albums for a quick slideshow featuring the secret organization and their matching t-shirts, showing both how lame they were and how tight Rob was that he wasn’t allowed in. Confronting your bullies on stage is a literal comedian’s dream and what Rob did with the back half of Frontin’ is as personal and vulnerable and hilarious as anything I have seen in a stand up special in ages, particularly when we get updates in the picture slideshow of where the group is now. The best part for Rob has been that despite their presence at Frontin’s second taping which did throw off his mojo, nobody in the secret organization has said anything to him about the special whatsoever. It has been his version of Jay Z put Prodigy on the Summer Jam screen as nobody has claimed it went down differently or that he’s exaggerating, all he’s heard is their complicit silence.
Rob learned two very important lessons while recording Frontin‘: When he is focused on a topic he cares about he can write rather quickly, and there is nothing stopping him from putting his shit out independently. This special came about after a streamer showed interest, and when they backed out Rob just figured out how to get it done on his own. He’s already started work on his next special, one where he wants to focus on his romantic life, something he’s largely avoided in his stand up thus far. While he thought he had an hour of material on the subject that he is now realizing may only be a dozen minutes, Rob seemed excited to be writing with purpose again. A decade and a half into his career Rob still feels like he is learning something new about comedy every day, is still honing his process, and is still getting funnier.
Rob and I talked about why he picked The Earl as the venue for his special, what his classmate Trinidad James was like in middle school, and Beyoncé’s involvement in his excellent new comedy special Frontin’.
GSC: What’s your name and what is your artistry of choice?
ROB: I’m Rob Haze and I’m a comedian. By choice I guess.
GSC: You grew up in Atlanta. Where specifically did you grow up in Atlanta and what was it like?
ROB: Southwest Atlanta. Atlanta is a unique city. For the most part I grew up in a house, not a lot of sidewalks but we had public transportation access to the city. Within city limits, but not necessarily your concrete jungle.
GSC: I have a lot of friends in Atlanta. I’m wearing my Clermont Lounge shirt, had to rep.
ROB: Okay, you went and saw Blondie.
GSC: I did! Atlanta is such an eclectic place. No city in America has a comparable cultural output per capita. There are so many creative people coming out of Atlanta of all stripes. Why do you think that is? What about the city cultivates that energy?
ROB: I think there’s a safeness, people feel comfortable expressing themselves in Atlanta. Everyone knows someone working on something, so you always feel like you could get involved in something creatively. It’s also a meeting point for the southeast. So many people flock to Atlanta from other areas to create things. Your Nelly’s or your Gucci’s, they came from other places and made a name for themselves in Atlanta. But it always felt like that was happening in Atlanta before we had the national spotlight. I remember when it was just TLC, and then it was TLC and Usher, and then it was Lil Jon and Bone Crusher, and T.I. and Jeezy. All these different things started happening, and it’s not like the other things went away. You still see Monica out in places, you still see the members of Xscape at places. And that’s just on the music side. On the comedy side, they did Comic View in Atlanta for a couple of years. Jeff Foxworthy started in Atlanta, Chris Tucker came out of Atlanta and blew up. Somebody is always doing something interesting in Atlanta if you know where to look.
GSC: Atlanta is a city full of characters, most people I know from the city are hilarious. Were there any particularly funny people early on in your life? Family, friends, local figures who you remember riffing with, or who helped you see how funny you were?
ROB: Oh yeah. There was this guy in high school, Shannon. I used to sit behind him, and sometimes I would say something and he would say it louder and get laughs. I consider that my first writing job, but he was actually hilarious. My Aunt Tonya and my granny too, my father’s mother. My father was full of personality too, always joking, a super big comedy fan. I know about comedy through my Dad. There were so many funny people though. Homeless people would have funny signs growing up, good humor was not a scarce resource in Atlanta.
GSC: I loved your joke on your optional school uniforms. Did your parents make you wear the uniform or were you exempt?
ROB: So I did kindergarten in private school, then I did regular school after that, and I guess I associated uniforms with school being better. When I first got to school, I wanted to wear a uniform and my parents were dressing me in whatever. As I got older I realized the uniform was not the move. Then I went to a middle school where they had a school uniform, but they also didn’t really have any way of enforcing it. They just had some random infrequent perks if you wore it, and they got really ticky tacky. Our color was teal and they’d call us out if our shirt was too green. Teal was not the easiest color to find.
GSC: Yea, a couple laundry cycles might take a shirt from teal to green too.
ROB: Exactly. I also think that everybody that was in that situation dressed crazy when we got to high school because we didn’t have those years of making these choices, different colors go with different colors. One of the kids that went to my middle school was Trinidad James. We see how the uniform affected him. He wore that uniform every day, when he finally broke out he never looked back.
GSC: He did a sneaker YouTube show Full Size Run that I really liked.
ROB: His older one Camp James was fire too.
GSC: What was he like in middle school?
ROB: He was taller than everybody, he was the tallest kid. He had every Michael Jordan basketball card. He had Michael Jordan playing golf. He had Michael Jordan playing baseball. He had Michael Jordan wearing the number 12. He had every Michael Jordan card to the point where it’s like, how long have you been a kid? Like, are you secretly older than us? How do you have all of these? At this time Jordan is the president of the Wizards. You can’t just go to the store and get a Michael Jordan card. Michael Jordan’s retired, these seemed to be worth a lot back then.
GSC: What a middle school man.
ROB: Same middle school two years later, Lil Baby is there too. No overlap with us I don’t think but still crazy.
GSC: Did you guys have a sick music department at that middle school?
ROB: Our music teacher’s claim to fame was that she taught 112. She always encouraged us saying if we really wanted to do it, there was a path. Making it in music never felt like a far-fetched thing. If you had the drive and talent there were people you could work with in Atlanta. Some people are like “I had to be Dorothy in the play, that was the only way I can sing.” It wasn’t like that in Atlanta. There was always someone whose house you could go to and learn to make beats or whatever.
GSC: You went to the University of Georgia in Athens, a gorgeous city. How has the football team’s recent success been and how do you look back on your time at UGA?
ROB: I mean, a lot of the special is about my time at UGA. Maybe the wackiest and darkest part, but because of that low point I ended up finding myself and having a great college experience. The second half of college is kind of what I’ve been chasing the rest of my life since. UGA is a lot of fun, a big party school. I got to see the Dawgs win their second championship out here in LA on the rainiest day that I ever experienced in LA, that was amazing. We were always knocking on the door of championships, ranking higher than playoff teams after not making the playoffs and all that jazz, so it felt good to be undefeated basically three years in a row. I don’t know how you lose one game to Alabama by three and then don’t end up in the playoffs, but you know, the fix was in. The powers that be didn’t want to see a three-peat. I don’t count whatever Washington and Michigan had going on as a championship. We got a great recruiting class coming in, I feel like if we get a third championship we gotta get a 30 for 30.
GSC: You started off doing funny poems at college poetry nights before doing stand up. How did that come about?
ROB: That was the first thing available. When a lot of the stuff I talk about in the special is going on, while I’m feeling alienated, I go to a poetry night and I sign up for the open mic. I’m like what’s the worst that can happen? I feel like I don’t belong anyway so me doing something goofy at a poetry night won’t end me. It’s already people on my Facebook giving me a hard time and people in real life giving me a hard time. So I signed up first and I told a poem about the poetry night. Every line is funny, but I’m not even realizing that I’m doing comedy. I’m just being silly, but I remember that feeling of getting laughs off of something that I made up on the spot. Hearing my voice and commanding the room, it was an out of body experience. After that, everyone that was there that night started calling me a comedian. From there I felt some pressure, because I haven’t written a joke yet. What if I suck at writing jokes? So I’d go up at poetry nights and tell funny poems. That was a little harder, because now I’m actually in the show. People are actually expecting this to be something, and those are going well. I remember one time Georgia Me, she’s been on Def Poetry Jam and stuff. She was complaining about how much more money comedians make than poets, but she’s bringing this energy towards me. Meanwhile I’m thinking I’m not a comedian, but I am like all right, point taken. I had a friend who did comedy. Everyone on campus had heard all of his jokes, but they were funny and he’d get booked. Sometimes he’d bring me out to do a poem, and people responded well to it. I asked him how to get started in comedy, and he gave me the number of a guy who was starting a comedy night. Then my senior year I started doing stand up.
GSC: I can’t imagine having a reputation as a poet on campus, that is fascinating.
ROB: Not even a poet, not quite a comedian, it was like, I do bits with poetry. It would even be like Barney songs, the That So Raven theme song. People didn’t know what to expect. I really liked how I had no rules with it, I could come up and do whatever. Stand up can have these rigid rules and ways of doing things where I could really do anything back then.
GSC: So you then graduated college moved back to Atlanta and started in the Atlanta comedy scene. What was that time in your life like?
ROB: I graduated on a Saturday and that next Sunday I was in the comedy club. I was at Uptown Comedy Corner. I did so bad the previous time I was there they said don’t come back for six months, and it’d been eight months. I come back, I get on the stage, I’m ready to attack. This is a boo room, where if they don’t like you they let you know, and you only get three minutes. I’m on stage, I’m making fun of anyone and everyone there, I’m making fun of myself. I’m talking about everything going on in the room. I get off and Shawty Shawty, the host of the show who was on Wild N’ Out, he gets back on the mic like, “Man, that’s funny. Next time, come back and do jokes.” I come back the next week and do my act, but with confidence. From then on, Sunday nights I’m there, and I developed nightly routines at clubs all over town. Wednesday nights, I’m going to the Punch Line, then I’m going further south to 255, and then further south to Backstage to end the night. Basically, the farther south I go, the harder the show. I start out at this white club on the north side and I end at this black club with these old black people. They’re a dance group and they want the show to end so that they can start dancing, so they boo every comedian that comes up. They’re at the show, but they hate the show. That was Bruce Bruce‘s night. I’m doing all these different shows and I’m noticing that there’s not many comics in Atlanta doing everything. There’s not many comics in Atlanta doing the hood show where every comic has a nickname and also doing the super redneck, you better have a collared shirt and a belt on type shows. Everyone in Georgia wears shorts in the summer too. I feel like that’s how you know somebody has been doing stand up for awhile, when it’s July and they got pants on.
GSC: It sounds like you really left no stone unturned comedy wise.
ROB: I was a monk for comedy. I didn’t really drink or try to have sex, I was just focused on comedy. When I wasn’t at work I spent every night at any club I could get into. I’d watch the headliners when they came in for the weekend. Every morning I woke up and would watch a sitcom or a late night show and take notes. I really grinded as much as I possibly could.
GSC: It all culminated in 2015, where in a year, you were on Last Comic Standing, got on the prestigious Montreal based Just for Laughs Festival, and won the Laughing Skull Comedy Festival, which is one of the big Comedy Festivals in Atlanta. I can imagine that it was a hectic year, but probably a really fun year. How do you remember that time in your life?
ROB: I remember it fondly but I didn’t realize a lot of how things worked back then, and all that happened within a couple of months. So basically, I go to Last Comic Standing and I lose. You have to turn in your jokes for Last Comic Standing, so you can’t get a feeling for it and change course on the fly unless you just turned in a ton of material. I just turned in what I was going to do for my first set. Maybe I should have turned in more jokes, but I didn’t know if then I burn those jokes for good by sending them in or what they do to the material, so I sent in my short set. They’re on the fence about me, and they don’t even air a lot of what happened. It was close where I almost got through but I ended up getting eliminated. Literally the next day I’m at the Laughing Skull Comedy Festival. I go up and I’m angry. I’m like, I could have done this joke, I should have done this one here, and I go through the Skull Fest guns blazing. I don’t repeat a joke any round, because if they’re only seeing three minutes of me on TV I want them to see all the jokes here, I was anxious about it all. I won the festival, and people are like you might get Montreal, but I wasn’t so sure. I had done NBC Stand Up for Diversity, maybe three years prior, and that was a big opportunity. That’s a showcase in LA. They fly you out, you meet with NBC, you meet with casting, you meet with the development people, and they have a showcase. And basically, I didn’t get any industry anything. Part of that is because I was in Atlanta and not on the coast. I’m like, if I want to get an opportunity like that again, I need to move. So I decided to move to New York right then. By the time Montreal happens, I’ve moved to New York, and then Last Comic drops legit the night before my Montreal New Face Showcase. So in a couple months I was doing several of the biggest things in comedy in my eyes. Just doing these shows and learning so much as I did them, it was nuts honestly.
GSC: I imagine you moved to New York, and you’re similarly monk-like about your pursuit of comedy when you got there. What were the biggest differences between the New York and Atlanta comedy scenes that you noticed when you got to town?
ROB: I had put New York on a pedestal. I always thought, this is the mecca, this is where the best comics in the world are. And it is, but it’s also where the most comics in the world are. So the ceiling is super high, but the floor is super low. There’s certain things that I’m doing in Atlanta that I’m not doing in New York. In Atlanta you’re driving in the car a lot, listening to the radio. Everyone has similar musical sensibilities. In New York, all those car jokes have to go away. At that time, I might have had 15-20 minutes of just car related jokes I had to stash. I’m also realizing I’m often in front of tourists, in front of people from all over the world. In order to connect to them, I have to talk about more relatable topics, broader things, or at least be able to pull them into my specificity. I feel like leaving where you’re from, it might be even more important for your development than actually where you go. Like, I think a lot of the people that are doing really well in Atlanta are not from Atlanta, they did leave somewhere to go to Atlanta.
GSC: In 2018, before you dropped Haze-O-Pedia you got on Fallon for the first time shortly after your father passed away. Rest in peace to him, I am so sorry again. I can only imagine how hard that was to deal with and how bittersweet that moment was. How do you remember that moment in time?
ROB: I found out about Fallon the day after my Dad passed. I had a moment before I walked out on stage where it kinda felt like being on stage at poetry night. I’ve been through the worst thing, nothing that happens right now could be any worse than what I’ve just gone through. My dad really was into the idea of me doing late night, especially after Montreal. I would always call and keep him up to date on my progress, who I was talking to about what. He would watch late night sets and he’d record them on his phone and send them to me. I’d be like, they’re on YouTube, you could send me the link. But he’d be like I saw your friend! I’m gonna see you up there soon. I really really wanted it to happen before he passed, but it’s just not how it worked out. The day I auditioned was a tough day too and I could have been home. I could have been with him, but I was in New York and I was auditioning. There’s no telling when you hear back from something like that, or how that whole process works. After that Fallon set I feel like things started to click for me. I started to get on some of the best shows in town. I got my first writing job that year, and that brought me out to LA. That’s the path I’ve been on since that Fallon set in 2018.
GSC: Beautifully put. I can imagine how difficult that was but I know he was happy you got it in the end. I really love Haze-O-Pedia from 2019. On a technical level, why did you want to put out a recorded comedy album versus a video special?
ROB: When I recorded Haze-O-Pedia it was the spring of 2019. Pretty much the only people that were putting out independent specials were already established. They already had their Comedy Central special or had a ton of Conan’s or whatever. It wasn’t what it became in the pandemic where people were just putting stuff out on YouTube. I wanted to put out a body of work, and honestly, I don’t want people to see me. What I care about is the jokes. I like the audio experience and being on Sirius and listening to different comic’s jokes on the radio. I don’t have to see a person talking to be entertained by them. Putting that out was seriously life changing. Haze-O-Pedia had a great deal of reach and got into a lot of people’s ears.
GSC: I love your joke from that special on too many words being in the dictionary. Is there a word that you would like to get taken out of circulation these days?
ROB: I don’t know that anybody that uses “rizz” now is doing what they think they’re doing. I also don’t like the phrase “standing on business” anymore. I’m tired of that. It was cool, it came from a Druski skit, it came from comedy, but so many people have used it that it’s lost its luster.
GSC: How did you go about writing and plotting out your new special Frontin’? You’ve mentioned you wanted to talk about these topics for a while.
ROB: I started working it out I think in 2021. I was just traveling, trying to get places to let me headline or at least do a longer set. I worked it out in DC, Savannah, Asheville, Denver. It was hard material to workshop because at a comedy show people are just expecting you to be funny. They don’t care that you’re trying to build a story. I didn’t feel comfortable talking about certain topics until I made people laugh for a certain amount of time. That last bit, the last six minutes, I really had trouble getting into that. I mostly just did it at shows that were branded as Frontin’ shows. That being said, I feel like because I had an idea of what I wanted to say, it made building that set so much easier, it came together way quicker. Haze-O-Pedia was my best stuff from my whole time doing comedy to that point, where Frontin’ showed me that when I am focused, when I’m recording myself and listening to myself and really have an idea of what I want to say, I can do it way faster and way better too. I feel like I am constantly learning more and improving my process.
GSC: So Beyoncé’s involvement in the special had to be cut short, can you tell us what her involvement was or would that violate an NDA?
ROB: It’s a combination of two things. One of my favorite comedy specials is Richard Pryor Live in Concert, and his opener is Patti LaBelle. A very similar paragraph is on that special, but Patti LaBelle was actually his opener. If you ever watch Patti LaBelle perform, it’s chaos. She’s throwing her shoes, she’s singing, she’s rolling on the floor. She is a full out entertainer. The last thing you would want to follow her with is some comedy. When Richard Pryor gets on the stage it’s pandemonium. The first five minutes is just him getting everybody to sit down and pay attention. It’s his special, but the concept of a special is new. The people there think they’re going to a show to party and do drugs. I always said if I had a special I would put the exact same paragraph with Patti LaBelle to open it. Then the night I recorded Frontin’ Beyoncé’s Renaissance tour was in Atlanta. Without my knowledge the director of the special, Michael Tumey, went and got a drone shot of Atlanta. You see the Mercedes Benz Stadium at the opening of the special, and that’s where Beyoncé is. I was afraid I wasn’t gonna be able to sell tickets that night because so many people already had their Beyoncé tickets. So it’s an Easter egg for the big comedy nerds, but it’s also a joke before it even gets started. Like you had to pause that five seconds in to read it, we’re already having fun.
GSC: I literally did. The Earl is one of my favorite bars and venues in Atlanta and America. One of my best friends lives within walking distance from The Earl, their bar has arguably the best Guiness pour in Atlanta and they have a great venue for music and comedy. How did you pick The Earl as the venue for this special?
ROB: My friend Dave Stone did his special there, Andy Sanford did his special there. They were part of The Beards of Comedy. I always liked The Earl as a spot. I opened for Hannibal and Eric Andre there maybe 10 years prior. I like rock venues, I like being on a high stage. I think being elevated helps my comedy style, and I didn’t want to do it at a venue that wasn’t reflective of the kind of venues I like being at. If there was an Earl in 30 cities I’d go to them all, that would be an incredible tour. I love that place when it’s packed, you just get such great energy. I still plan on continuing to do shows there too, even beyond tapings and stuff.
GSC: If there was an Earl in 30 cities we’d be a better country. How did you pick your outfit for this special? I see you are a big Jordan Five guy, wearing them during Frontin’ and in your Fallon sets.
ROB: The Fives are part of the motif for Frontin’, if you will, because as you know the Fives have the teeth on them. That’s why every time I ran Frontin’ I wore the Fives, often Grapes or the Raging Bulls. They’re not necessarily my favorite Jordans. Whatever I do next might have a different vibe and a different shoe to go with it. As far as the rest of the outfit, it was really more about what colors go well with how we dressed the set, it was more from a cinematic standpoint. Olive is a color I wear normally, and I didn’t want any big logos or anything that could make it timely. Virgil passed while I was working on the special so I wanted to wear the Off White Fives in his honor for the taping.
GSC: Your bit on the secret organization had me howling, I love how you brought that story to the stage. Has anyone in that secret society reached out?
ROB: No! I was worried too. Some of them were at the second taping, and I feel like it messed up some of my chemistry in that taping. At the same time though, it felt like when Jay Z put Prodigy on the Summer Jam screen. No one’s reached out, no one has said, “Ah, that’s messed up. That’s not how it went. That’s not how I felt.” It’s been nothing from them, so that’s been the mic drop. Some people wanted to cut out the picture screens part too, and I was just like, we can’t cut out the screens. People need to see that this is real. I bought everybody’s shirt too, we got to show that in the show.
GSC: The epilogue with the screens is one of my favorite things that I’ve seen anybody do on stage. It felt like the epilogue of Animal House where they tell you Bluto became a Senator. All the personal stories, in particular your friends who were now married, had me dying. Was it hard workshopping that material?
ROB: When I ran the show here in LA, I did it with the screens, and I could never really get it right at first. I didn’t want to integrate it into the set. Some people were like, you should really do it in the flow of the set, but to me that messed up the timing. I wanted the set to be a stand-upy as possible. So we used it as a little treat at the end, and I like how it came out.
GSC: You’re writing for a show right now. It seems like a very interesting time for the entertainment industry. How do you feel working in the entertainment industry and as a comedian right now?
ROB: The biggest lesson I’ve learned is that you can’t rest on an old model or an old mindset of doing things. If you really want to make something, you should make it. If you really want to write something you should write it. Frontin’ is an example of that. I really wanted to do a special and I was in talks with an unnamed streamer. I realized that it was a real possibility through those conversations. They pulled out and I was like, I’m gonna figure out how to do this on my own.
GSC: Athletes adjust. You are writing for a show now and I saw an interview where you said you may have a good chunk of a special on romance ready. What are you working on next and do you know the timeline?
ROB: I attempted to work it out recently and what I thought was an hour might only be 12 minutes. I gotta continue to express and compress and figure out how to make something as packed with humor and personal experience as Frontin’ was. But also, I do think love and relationships is something I’ve been avoiding in my fifteen years of doing stand up, and something that I want to explore. Jokes about romance are also broader in the way that I was talking about with appealing to tourists, where maybe I could take that act overseas and whatnot. I am cognizant of that and trying to be as funny as I can. No hard deadlines but I know what I want it to be about, I just need to figure out how I want to say it.
GSC: The last question I always like to end on is what is something about you that may surprise people?
ROB: I think I have this reputation of being a know-it-all. I just want people to know, I’m fully okay with being wrong. I can admit when I’m wrong. I can admit that I don’t know everything. I do retain a lot of information. People say it’s random, people say it’s useless, I don’t really like that type of talk. But I’m alright with saying I don’t know something. I think sometimes I’m at my most entertaining when I’m learning.
